![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Tags:
Jul. 9th, 2017
Tags:
via http://ift.tt/2uEMxlS:
katsgf:
so funny how gay and bisexual men on here scream at bi women and lesbians and say “don’t use my romance/sexuality as a self-discovery journey” when gay and bi men habitually associate themselves with women and implicate themselves in women’s spaces and areas to get more acquainted and comfortable with their own sexuality and the way their gender ties in with their sexuality. i guess it’s okay for you all to use women, to comment on their bodies and their fashion and their habits and mannerisms, and to adopt some of those mannerisms to understand yourselves, but god forbid a lesbian or a bi woman approaches her sexuality/understanding her sexuality through mlm media.
take a look at how gay/bi men refuse to accept that trans women (black and latina trans women) have always played a big role in drag culture. gay/bi men will wear fashion and clothing traditionally associated with women and be lauded for “subverting gender roles” and what not but a butch lesbian wearing men’s fashion or using he/him pronouns is seen as “replicating toxic masculinity”. trans women have to perform femininity to survive, whereas gay/bi men may use femininity as a means of approaching their sexuality and reconfiguring it for other gay/bi men only. bi women constantly talk about invisibility and erasure and try to formulate ways around it only for bi men to blame them for their own problems.
art forms, roles, spaces, and ideas all traditionally associated with men may be used by gay/bi men as a method of self-discovery. that’s seen as radical. but lesbians and bi women can’t consume m/m media without it being seen as robbery or fetishization, lol. you men have some audacity thinking that you can get away with insulting women, using misogynistic slurs, touching their bodies and commenting on their bodies in “cool” or “humorous” ways, using women’s art or spaces or movements to understand yourselves, and then simultaneously scream at lesbians and bi women for trying to find refuge in gay/bi male spaces or media.
the disparity between what is available for wlw and trans women and what is acceptable for mlm and trans men is humiliating and degrading.
there are a few things in this post that I really can’t get on board with.
first and foremost among them is the idea that gay and bisexual men are celebrated for being feminine which, while true in some very insular intracommunity contexts and some thinkpieces, broadly ignores the very really homophobic and transphobic hatred of gender nonconforming men.
the second is the use of the phrase “mlm media” when what is being discussed and described is, in fact, m/m media. that’s a slash instead of a letter l. the two are not equivalent. mlm media, a phrase never used outside of its formulation by tumblr based lgbtq discourse communities, could be any media created by or about mlm in any capacity. m/m media is media that depicts male/male relationships.
the implication that “mlm media” (in the sense of fictional depictions of gay and bisexual men’s romantic and sexual lives) is equivalent to some nebulous notion of “women’s spaces” is untrue. you speak as though 1) “mlm media” were a men(loving men)’s space — untrue, a large amount of m/m media, like girl-on-girl porn, has been produced by straight people of the “opposite” binary gender — and/or as though 2) the traditionally female spaces (femininity??) that gay and bi men take part in are spaces particularly associated with wlw — untrue, there is little to no cultural association between gnc man-loving manhood and lesbianism or female bisexuality. the real equivalent of m/m media is f/f media, and the equivalent of women’s spaces/femininity are men’s spaces/masculinity. because “mlm media” and “women’s spaces” are so far from equivalent, I cannot agree with the way you draw a connection between women consuming m/m media and men being feminine.
the fourth is the way you bring up trans people. the parallels you draw between trans women who “have to perform femininity to survive” vs gay/bi men who “use” it implies that trans women and men access femininity in similar ways, but that trans women are entitled to it because they have a “prescription”, and gay/bi men are accessing it recreationally, which is wrong in your opinion. also the way you say “wlw and trans women” and “mlm and trans men” is incredibly uncomfortable to me. it implies a bizarre divide between LBPQ women and trans women, and between GBPQ men and trans men, while also, in the context you use it in, homogenizing their experiences (as though what is “acceptable” for trans men and gay or bi cis men is so similar or even related).
frankly, I feel that your post is very gender essentialist, painting femininity as the rightful and natural domain of women and femininity in men as unnatural and distasteful. the way you talk about gender nonconforming men (because that’s who you’re talking about, even though you frame everything they do as deliberate choices of aggression against women) feels extremely hateful to me.
katsgf:
so funny how gay and bisexual men on here scream at bi women and lesbians and say “don’t use my romance/sexuality as a self-discovery journey” when gay and bi men habitually associate themselves with women and implicate themselves in women’s spaces and areas to get more acquainted and comfortable with their own sexuality and the way their gender ties in with their sexuality. i guess it’s okay for you all to use women, to comment on their bodies and their fashion and their habits and mannerisms, and to adopt some of those mannerisms to understand yourselves, but god forbid a lesbian or a bi woman approaches her sexuality/understanding her sexuality through mlm media.
take a look at how gay/bi men refuse to accept that trans women (black and latina trans women) have always played a big role in drag culture. gay/bi men will wear fashion and clothing traditionally associated with women and be lauded for “subverting gender roles” and what not but a butch lesbian wearing men’s fashion or using he/him pronouns is seen as “replicating toxic masculinity”. trans women have to perform femininity to survive, whereas gay/bi men may use femininity as a means of approaching their sexuality and reconfiguring it for other gay/bi men only. bi women constantly talk about invisibility and erasure and try to formulate ways around it only for bi men to blame them for their own problems.
art forms, roles, spaces, and ideas all traditionally associated with men may be used by gay/bi men as a method of self-discovery. that’s seen as radical. but lesbians and bi women can’t consume m/m media without it being seen as robbery or fetishization, lol. you men have some audacity thinking that you can get away with insulting women, using misogynistic slurs, touching their bodies and commenting on their bodies in “cool” or “humorous” ways, using women’s art or spaces or movements to understand yourselves, and then simultaneously scream at lesbians and bi women for trying to find refuge in gay/bi male spaces or media.
the disparity between what is available for wlw and trans women and what is acceptable for mlm and trans men is humiliating and degrading.
there are a few things in this post that I really can’t get on board with.
first and foremost among them is the idea that gay and bisexual men are celebrated for being feminine which, while true in some very insular intracommunity contexts and some thinkpieces, broadly ignores the very really homophobic and transphobic hatred of gender nonconforming men.
the second is the use of the phrase “mlm media” when what is being discussed and described is, in fact, m/m media. that’s a slash instead of a letter l. the two are not equivalent. mlm media, a phrase never used outside of its formulation by tumblr based lgbtq discourse communities, could be any media created by or about mlm in any capacity. m/m media is media that depicts male/male relationships.
the implication that “mlm media” (in the sense of fictional depictions of gay and bisexual men’s romantic and sexual lives) is equivalent to some nebulous notion of “women’s spaces” is untrue. you speak as though 1) “mlm media” were a men(loving men)’s space — untrue, a large amount of m/m media, like girl-on-girl porn, has been produced by straight people of the “opposite” binary gender — and/or as though 2) the traditionally female spaces (femininity??) that gay and bi men take part in are spaces particularly associated with wlw — untrue, there is little to no cultural association between gnc man-loving manhood and lesbianism or female bisexuality. the real equivalent of m/m media is f/f media, and the equivalent of women’s spaces/femininity are men’s spaces/masculinity. because “mlm media” and “women’s spaces” are so far from equivalent, I cannot agree with the way you draw a connection between women consuming m/m media and men being feminine.
the fourth is the way you bring up trans people. the parallels you draw between trans women who “have to perform femininity to survive” vs gay/bi men who “use” it implies that trans women and men access femininity in similar ways, but that trans women are entitled to it because they have a “prescription”, and gay/bi men are accessing it recreationally, which is wrong in your opinion. also the way you say “wlw and trans women” and “mlm and trans men” is incredibly uncomfortable to me. it implies a bizarre divide between LBPQ women and trans women, and between GBPQ men and trans men, while also, in the context you use it in, homogenizing their experiences (as though what is “acceptable” for trans men and gay or bi cis men is so similar or even related).
frankly, I feel that your post is very gender essentialist, painting femininity as the rightful and natural domain of women and femininity in men as unnatural and distasteful. the way you talk about gender nonconforming men (because that’s who you’re talking about, even though you frame everything they do as deliberate choices of aggression against women) feels extremely hateful to me.
Jul. 9th, 2017 11:46 am
trans philosophy
via http://ift.tt/2tZVRTe:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
an egg is still an egg before hatching.
an egg is still an egg if it never hatches.
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
an egg is still an egg before hatching.
an egg is still an egg if it never hatches.
Tags:
Jul. 9th, 2017 11:46 am
trans philosophy
via http://ift.tt/2tZIdjg:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
an egg is still an egg before hatching.
an egg is still an egg if it never hatches.
an unhatched egg is not a stone.
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
an egg is still an egg before hatching.
an egg is still an egg if it never hatches.
an unhatched egg is not a stone.
Tags:
via http://ift.tt/2uFTMKh:
lol katsgf blocked me with no response and went on to vagueblog about how people are accusing her of misandry. because any social structures that negatively impact men are misandry, and therefore not real. also looooove how she made no response whatsoever to my statements about her treatment of trans people.
lol katsgf blocked me with no response and went on to vagueblog about how people are accusing her of misandry. because any social structures that negatively impact men are misandry, and therefore not real. also looooove how she made no response whatsoever to my statements about her treatment of trans people.
Tags:
via http://ift.tt/2uZnIQY:
just went to get a book from my shelves and like… didn’t use the alphabetization. if I had put even the effort of remembering a name I could be found it easily but instead I just picked up the first thing that I saw and liked… weird
just went to get a book from my shelves and like… didn’t use the alphabetization. if I had put even the effort of remembering a name I could be found it easily but instead I just picked up the first thing that I saw and liked… weird
Tags:
via http://ift.tt/2t2K8zq:
prokopetz:
metalfatigue:
prokopetz:
Really, the reason people keep saying “this is just Homestuck” about this or that web serial isn’t due to lack of imagination - it’s because Homestuck was basically the vanguard of a modern resurgence of the epistolary novel as a mainstream art form. I’m actually really curious what name we’re going to settle on for the revived genre - it’s different enough from traditional epistolary novels that it can’t really fall under the same label, but we can’t keep calling them Homestuck-alikes forever.
“Multimedia epistolary novel” seems like a good enough name for the structure of 17776 so far, but there’s a lot of conceptual space branching out from Homestuck that’s yet to be fully mapped.
Well, yes - “multimedia epistolary novel” is a perfectly cromulent description of the broad genre that both Homestuck and 17776 occupy. They’re never going to be called that in everyday conversation, though, because it’s a big awkward mouthful. We need a name with considerably fewer than twelve syllables in order to properly pin down a genre.
multimedia chatfic
prokopetz:
metalfatigue:
prokopetz:
Really, the reason people keep saying “this is just Homestuck” about this or that web serial isn’t due to lack of imagination - it’s because Homestuck was basically the vanguard of a modern resurgence of the epistolary novel as a mainstream art form. I’m actually really curious what name we’re going to settle on for the revived genre - it’s different enough from traditional epistolary novels that it can’t really fall under the same label, but we can’t keep calling them Homestuck-alikes forever.
“Multimedia epistolary novel” seems like a good enough name for the structure of 17776 so far, but there’s a lot of conceptual space branching out from Homestuck that’s yet to be fully mapped.
Well, yes - “multimedia epistolary novel” is a perfectly cromulent description of the broad genre that both Homestuck and 17776 occupy. They’re never going to be called that in everyday conversation, though, because it’s a big awkward mouthful. We need a name with considerably fewer than twelve syllables in order to properly pin down a genre.
multimedia chatfic
Tags: