Dec. 7th, 2016

undeleterious: two sambal oelek chili paste jars filled with black and pink paper stars, in front of some animorphs books on a shelf (Default)
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royharpers:

r-o-b-i-n-s:

Hi so reblog this post and write a lil about yourself in the tags if you want to be added to my new DC group chat on Discord and ill pick some people and add yall but if no one reblogs this we will forget this ever happened

hi so like this is a 17 and up chat btw forgot to mention that 
Dec. 7th, 2016 05:09 am

PLEASE READ

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ashkenegro:

spockoandjimjim:

Before you send me an ask asking if it’s okay to write a Jewish character celebrating Christmas/at a Christmas party/doing anything christmassy, please take a full minute and consider why Jewish characters being assimilated into Christian tradition is so important to you.

Gentile followers: please reblog this.

Honestly I disagree. There are a multitude of reasons a Jewish character, or a Jewish person could be celebrating Christmas/ “doing something Christmassy”

1. One of their parents is a Gentile, so half their family is. Even though they’re Jewish, they still celebrate the holiday as a way to connect with family. (This is my case.)

2. It does kinda permeate our culture (which is a whole nother story about Christian-normativity) so Christmas Carols are “Holiday Songs” without changing any of the words, and Santa is shown as just as much of a “winter” figure as a snowflake.

This relates to one of my issues with questions about representation in media. Every plot detail is judged to be a conscious, intricately thought out decision by the writer, and the detail is judged at face value and used as a measuring stick for the “problematicness” of the writer. Maybe that Jewish character celebrating Christmas means nothing- it’s just the consequence of other plot details – having a Christian father (like I did), being forced to go to a Catholic school (like I was- long story short the education there was superior apparently), or maybe it’s an external manifestation of the character’s insecurity, both about their Judaism and themselves as a person. Come on guys, things can be used as plot elements and still be not desirable or a product of a hegemonic power structure, as the subjugation of Judaism is. ]

But that doesn’t mean that a writer who writes Jew at a Christmas party is inherently anti-Semitic– maybe the character just really likes cocoa and cookies.

Tbqh think there’s a potentially experience-erasing, homogenizing idea that OP’s words propagates: the idea that authentically represented Jews are, essentially, ethnically and religiously pure, that we all know and keep our traditions, that we do not know or keep those of any other cultures including groups we may be mixed with or the host cultures we live in. that we’re not assimilated, that it’s the Representative Ideal for us not to be assimilated.

like there are absolutely some sketchy Christians and converted-from-christianity atheists, pagans, etc. out there who are just like “everyone loves Christmas :03” with no respect or consideration for the many and nuanced experiences of nonchristian life in a majority Christian culture, and I’m leery of just going “go ahead, some Jews celebrate Christmas so it’s cool, have fun”. like, I think there should be a special level of consideration that comes in, when writing members of minority religions celebrating other religions’ holidays but it can be done, and to portray the breadth and depth of Jewish experience it MUST be done.

really, I think the thing to do is to portray a diversity of Jewish experiences and consider the unique characters of individual Jews.
undeleterious: two sambal oelek chili paste jars filled with black and pink paper stars, in front of some animorphs books on a shelf (Default)
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posts like that last one are like… I mean fuck, I know they’re important and a lot of people find them good but tbh a lot of the time I can’t help but reading them as “people shouldn’t write characters who are like you.” like I’m an inadequate representation of the Jewish experience. hot take, a diversity of experiences exists among members of marginalized groups.
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beholdmybloginator:

listen i’ve seen this argument a few times regarding jewish characters celebrating christmas and i’m very tired so here we go

yes, some jews celebrate christmas. i am one of them. sometimes it’s because we’re ethnic jews who are from mixed or nonreligious families, (me,) who may either celebrate both christmas and chanukah, or some kind of blend, or one holiday w/influences of the other. (for example, my family does christmas but we set a menorah out and i get gelt and dreidels in my stocking.) some may celebrate christmas because they have loved ones who do, or because they have friends who do. some may celebrate christmas because of assimilation. why a jew may celebrate christmas is not your concern, nor does it erase their jewishness

HOWEVER

fact that there are jews that celebrate christmas, like myself, does not mean that jews can’t be annoyed that jewish and jew-coded characters are predominantly shown in fic and art as celebrating christmas. when someone makes a post about how the pines family or spock or steven universe or what have you are explicitly coded to be jewish, based on actual jews or are literally religiously jewish in cannon, (say… i don’t know, the broflovski family on south park,) and your response is “yeah but some jews celebrate christmas too!” then stop it. seriously, stop it

stop using me and jews like me who may celebrate christmas to shame jews who don’t, stop using us as an excuse to avoid a conversation on jewish erasure. yeah, fine, maybe some of the characters would celebrate christmas. i know the pines family cannonically celebrates both. but here’s the thing. they celebrate both. and fanart does not always reflect that, and jews are allowed to comment on that fact and wish for less christmas art of jewish characters. and for those characters who have not been confirmed as celebrating anything, like, for example, steven universe, it is a little disconcerting and suspicious to only see art and fic of them celebrating christmas, and having to search for a long time to find these jewish characters celebrating jewish holidays. and i’m not even going to try and explain why having religiously jewish characters, again, like kyle broflovski or krusty the clown, celebrating christmas is an issue, that should be obvious. we have every right to complain about christmas art of jewish characters, and we have every right to get fed up and declare that we don’t want to see any christmas art of them, whether or not they might celebrate christmas

TL;DR: yes, there are jews who celebrate christmas. in fact, i’m one of them. and this christmas loving jew wants you to stop fucking using them as a shield to avoid you having to confront your erasure and antisemitism. “some jews celebrate christmas” is not excuse for an overwhelming amount of art and fic of jewish characters portraying them as celebrating christmas
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hailmaryfullofgrace55675:

posts like that last one are like… I mean fuck, I know they’re important and a lot of people find them good but tbh a lot of the time I can’t help but reading them as “people shouldn’t write characters who are like you.” like I’m an inadequate representation of the Jewish experience. hot take, a diversity of experiences exists among members of marginalized groups.

honestly I think a lot of my —__________— feeling comes out of a genuine lack of stories portraying experiences like mine, that is, Jewish people having complicated relationships with Christmas, and they basically either are just like “Christmas, it’s nice, I like it, secular and fine” or “I’m Jewish so I don’t do that” in media and im sure most of the people talking about how Jewish Christmas stories are played out or offensive or whatever and that thing shouldn’t be made more of I’m like… but my Jewish Christmas experience isn’t represented at all! I need that! bhhhhhhhhhhh I’m not expressing this well but I have pecans to shell
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Jews have unique experiences of Christmas, different from the experiences of Christians. saying we’re universally apart from Christmas as a thing is just wrong, but so is assuming that our experiences of Christmas are simply Christmas minus the explicitly religious aspects. Jewish experiences of Christmas have their own specific elements that, in fact, a Christian Christmas lacks! here is a mixed bag of variously specific Jewish Christmas experiences:

-not celebrating Christmas and trying not to think about it -being really aware of it anyway, emphatically replying happy holidays to Christmas wishes, feeling culturally alienated -doing the movies and Chinese food thing even though they think it’s kind of corny -doing the movies and Chinese food thing because they think it’s fun -kind of wanting to peace out in the whole Christmas thing but getting dragged into Christmas stuff by an enthusiastic sibling who still celebrates it after a childhood of Fun Holidays With Kids -being the enthusiastic sibling -excusing it as basically secular and hey, holidays are what you make of them -genuinely thinking of it as secular -not genuinely thinking of it as secular -still feeling weird about it -not caring even if it’s weird -caring deeply and having a weird night over it -watching grandma got run over by a reindeer out of childhood nostalgia -watching one of the eight hannukah movies in existence as a show of rebellion -getting really bored during one of the eight hannukah movies in existence -almost lighting the now dry tree on fire while lighting hannukah candles without considering appropriate fire safety procedures -only being able to remember what dates hannukah falls on by using Christmas as a reference point -star of david tree ornaments -being on Christmas break and watching the seasonal movie marathons on the couch -celebrating Christmas as the outsider to a friend or romantic partner’s Christian family -realizing that people actually go to mass? wow. -getting pissed off at badly thought out Christmas episodes on favorite shows

feel free to add your own

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