![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Jul. 31st, 2018 07:23 am
Jul. 31st, 2018
via https://ift.tt/2v2yCrD
forcesunleashed:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
forcesunleashed:
I still feel like the term “exorsexism” is useless
The oppression and lateral aggression (from other trans people) that we as non-binary people feel is still transphobia
There’s no differentiating force between exorsexism and transphobia, and I feel like creating a seperate term for transphobic forces against NBs is like.. the exact opposite of what we’re going for
summary/thesis here, more detailed thoughts in following paragraphs. nonbinary rights seem to lag behind binary trans rights by a matter of decades, things that help binary trans people only help some nonbinary people, as nonbinary people become more visible sentiment against us becomes more articulated, exorsexism is an increasingly distinct and useful to identify subset of transphobia the way biphobia is a distinct and useful to identify subset of homophobia.
I think anti-nonbinary sentiment is changing and emerging as a somewhat more distinct and coherent thing as trans and nonbinary people become more visible and in some ways more accepted and definitely more legislated. I do workshops on understanding nonbinary identities and issues so I try to keep kind of abreast of like, nonbinary news, and the stuff I see doesn’t 100% track with how binary trans people are seen and treated. for example, legal victories for trans men and women aren’t necessarily all that helpful for nonbinary people. correct legal gender markers are available for trans men and women in most US states, while other markers are available in very few. trans men and women have become somewhat more common in mainstream media, and while the same is happening for nonbinary people, nonbinary characters can still pretty much be counted on one hand. I meet people on a regular basis who have a basic, decent understanding of trans men and trans women, but think nonbinary people are “going too far” or just don’t know anything about us. there’s an argument to be made that a lot of people have a category or categories for “an intermediate gender state not man or woman” in their head while not accepting that trans men or women are really their gender but I don’t think that’s “pro-nonbinary, anti-binary trans” I think it’s just transphobia. I don’t think it’s actually pro-nonbinary. anyway, this is all basically to say “in my observation, increased awareness and acceptance of binary trans people doesn’t always come along with equal awareness and acceptance of nonbinary people.”
I think something that also complicates this is like, some nonbinary people are like “I’m a woman and also it’s complicated. I will always use the women’s restroom and seek to be identified as a woman, a girlfriend, a daughter, a wife, a mother, etc. while additionally having these nonbinary feelings about gender” and some people are like “some days I’m a man and some days I’m a woman and my access needs will change from day to day” and some people are like “I am always a third different thing and I refuse to be identified with manhood or womanhood in any circumstance.” so there’s no one awareness or legislation that directly addresses all these people’s needs other than “be thoughtful and considerate and listen to a wide range of individuals.” not the simplest solution to implement, eh.
I don’t think exorsexism really is its own thing on a national level right now because I don’t think people have a clear enough picture of trans and nonbinary people yet to really… differentiate. but I think it is a thing in trans spaces and it will be a thing as awareness advances and more people have a basic picture and definition of nonbinary people while also hating us. which, I mean, I wish that wouldn’t happen, but like, it already is happening and will continue to. so. yeah. the way I see potential usefulness for a term like exorsexism is like, the animating force behind biphobia is homophobia (which is itself animated in large part by opressive gender systems). most of the discrimination that bi people face is basically homophobia. but biphobia is still a useful phrase, to me, to describe the specific experiences of bi people. imo exorsexism could be useful in the same way. I don’t think using the term exorsexism necessitates implying that it’s totally separate from and not at all driven by transphobia, or that the term biphobia necessitates that separation from homophobia.
I personally disagree with you that nb rights have been behind binary trans rights, because all in all the “progression” that binary trans rights have is minuscule, and not enough to compare. I also believe that certain strides are not the right ones, like with regards to legal gender markers. Binary trans people having their gender marker changed to reflect their true gender isn’t a goal we should be striving for, and neither should nb people strive for it. The government should abolish gender markers, because there’s no good reason for the government to keep track of the sex of people, especially those of us who have a change on record. This still panders to the system instead of changing it for the better, so I don’t count it when looking at long term trans rights. With other legal issues, transphobia still applies, because things like gender neutral bathrooms affect all trans people and are needed by all of us.
Now going to media representation, please show me where there is an abundance of binary trans people in the media, especially those an array of experiences (not just gender sob stories), without negative stereotypes, and have the list be racially diverse. Because I can count the number of binary trans people that fit those requirements on one hand. Non-binary and binary trans people are equally unrepresented and mocked in mainstream media. When it comes to things like that, a collective effort is needed.
And regarding some of your other points, there’s still not really an inherent need for differentiating. And honestly, separating non-binary issues from trans issues as a whole undermines the concept of cissexism, which was created to address these overarching issues that do affect us all.
We also need to look outside ourselves as recognize that a lot of issues that affect nb people affect trans men and women too, but in different ways. We are trans. The white stripe on the flag is ours. Let’s stop focusing on what micro differences there are between us and focus more on those greater issues that affect all of us, and those that affect our most vulnerable.
I know it’s been a while since you replied here, but I’ve been thinking about this post fairly regularly since then!
with regards to basic representation stats, there are substantially fewer nonbinary characters than binary trans male or female characters! this isn’t a point of argument, there is no math that can be performed that will make the ten or fifteen nonbinary characters who have popped up in mainstream media in the last couple of years more prevalent than binary trans characters. certainly, the nonstereotypical fleshed out binary trans characters of color in significant roles are pretty few and far between, but by your own admission they exist. where’s the equivalent nonbinary representation? I’ll be happy to cede this point if you direct me to it, but I know you won’t, because it does not exist.
I don’t know how to address a politics that explicitly expresses that progress toward making trans people’s lives more livable doesn’t count because it involves addressing the society we live in. I just don’t. “Binary trans people having their gender marker changed to reflect their true gender isn’t a goal we should be striving for… This still panders to the system instead of changing it for the better, so I don’t count it when looking at long term trans rights.” I’m sorry, but what, on earth, in this world, do you expect trans people to do? like, as people who are living in societies, and not just as discourse units? do you think binary trans people only fought for legal gender changes so they could get gentle cheek kisses from their local governments and not, like, material security? How far are you willing to take this? biomedical transition reifies the ideological construction of gendered and sexed bodies, should we stop striving for trans healthcare? what should we be striving for instead? what legislation could we support, or is legislation too liberal? is revolutionary communism our only option? I’m all for destroying capitalism and gender but theres just no way I can wait that long.
“We also need to look outside ourselves as recognize that a lot of issues that affect nb people affect trans men and women too, but in different ways. We are trans. The white stripe on the flag is ours. Let’s stop focusing on what micro differences there are between us and focus more on those greater issues that affect all of us, and those that affect our most vulnerable.” solidarity is necessary and focusing on the issues of multiply marginalized people is of primary importance but if we never focus on nonbinary specific issues they simply will not get solved. maybe in that communist revolution, but not at my temple, and not at my school, and not in my family, and not at my job. in my experience coming out and out and out and out as a nonbinary person, people who understand that trans men are men and trans women are women often completely fail to respect my gender identity and I’m sorry if this isn’t an overarching enough issue but it’s a problem for me and being reminded that things still also suck for binary trans people does absolutely nothing for it.
also, guess fucking what! multiply marginalized nonbinary people generally want to be represented, recognized, and supported as participants in society too! nonbinary-particular transphobia is an issue that affects people in the most vulnerable groups of society because being nonbinary isn’t a decadence of the privileged!
forcesunleashed:
hailmaryfullofgrace55675:
forcesunleashed:
I still feel like the term “exorsexism” is useless
The oppression and lateral aggression (from other trans people) that we as non-binary people feel is still transphobia
There’s no differentiating force between exorsexism and transphobia, and I feel like creating a seperate term for transphobic forces against NBs is like.. the exact opposite of what we’re going for
summary/thesis here, more detailed thoughts in following paragraphs. nonbinary rights seem to lag behind binary trans rights by a matter of decades, things that help binary trans people only help some nonbinary people, as nonbinary people become more visible sentiment against us becomes more articulated, exorsexism is an increasingly distinct and useful to identify subset of transphobia the way biphobia is a distinct and useful to identify subset of homophobia.
I think anti-nonbinary sentiment is changing and emerging as a somewhat more distinct and coherent thing as trans and nonbinary people become more visible and in some ways more accepted and definitely more legislated. I do workshops on understanding nonbinary identities and issues so I try to keep kind of abreast of like, nonbinary news, and the stuff I see doesn’t 100% track with how binary trans people are seen and treated. for example, legal victories for trans men and women aren’t necessarily all that helpful for nonbinary people. correct legal gender markers are available for trans men and women in most US states, while other markers are available in very few. trans men and women have become somewhat more common in mainstream media, and while the same is happening for nonbinary people, nonbinary characters can still pretty much be counted on one hand. I meet people on a regular basis who have a basic, decent understanding of trans men and trans women, but think nonbinary people are “going too far” or just don’t know anything about us. there’s an argument to be made that a lot of people have a category or categories for “an intermediate gender state not man or woman” in their head while not accepting that trans men or women are really their gender but I don’t think that’s “pro-nonbinary, anti-binary trans” I think it’s just transphobia. I don’t think it’s actually pro-nonbinary. anyway, this is all basically to say “in my observation, increased awareness and acceptance of binary trans people doesn’t always come along with equal awareness and acceptance of nonbinary people.”
I think something that also complicates this is like, some nonbinary people are like “I’m a woman and also it’s complicated. I will always use the women’s restroom and seek to be identified as a woman, a girlfriend, a daughter, a wife, a mother, etc. while additionally having these nonbinary feelings about gender” and some people are like “some days I’m a man and some days I’m a woman and my access needs will change from day to day” and some people are like “I am always a third different thing and I refuse to be identified with manhood or womanhood in any circumstance.” so there’s no one awareness or legislation that directly addresses all these people’s needs other than “be thoughtful and considerate and listen to a wide range of individuals.” not the simplest solution to implement, eh.
I don’t think exorsexism really is its own thing on a national level right now because I don’t think people have a clear enough picture of trans and nonbinary people yet to really… differentiate. but I think it is a thing in trans spaces and it will be a thing as awareness advances and more people have a basic picture and definition of nonbinary people while also hating us. which, I mean, I wish that wouldn’t happen, but like, it already is happening and will continue to. so. yeah. the way I see potential usefulness for a term like exorsexism is like, the animating force behind biphobia is homophobia (which is itself animated in large part by opressive gender systems). most of the discrimination that bi people face is basically homophobia. but biphobia is still a useful phrase, to me, to describe the specific experiences of bi people. imo exorsexism could be useful in the same way. I don’t think using the term exorsexism necessitates implying that it’s totally separate from and not at all driven by transphobia, or that the term biphobia necessitates that separation from homophobia.
I personally disagree with you that nb rights have been behind binary trans rights, because all in all the “progression” that binary trans rights have is minuscule, and not enough to compare. I also believe that certain strides are not the right ones, like with regards to legal gender markers. Binary trans people having their gender marker changed to reflect their true gender isn’t a goal we should be striving for, and neither should nb people strive for it. The government should abolish gender markers, because there’s no good reason for the government to keep track of the sex of people, especially those of us who have a change on record. This still panders to the system instead of changing it for the better, so I don’t count it when looking at long term trans rights. With other legal issues, transphobia still applies, because things like gender neutral bathrooms affect all trans people and are needed by all of us.
Now going to media representation, please show me where there is an abundance of binary trans people in the media, especially those an array of experiences (not just gender sob stories), without negative stereotypes, and have the list be racially diverse. Because I can count the number of binary trans people that fit those requirements on one hand. Non-binary and binary trans people are equally unrepresented and mocked in mainstream media. When it comes to things like that, a collective effort is needed.
And regarding some of your other points, there’s still not really an inherent need for differentiating. And honestly, separating non-binary issues from trans issues as a whole undermines the concept of cissexism, which was created to address these overarching issues that do affect us all.
We also need to look outside ourselves as recognize that a lot of issues that affect nb people affect trans men and women too, but in different ways. We are trans. The white stripe on the flag is ours. Let’s stop focusing on what micro differences there are between us and focus more on those greater issues that affect all of us, and those that affect our most vulnerable.
I know it’s been a while since you replied here, but I’ve been thinking about this post fairly regularly since then!
with regards to basic representation stats, there are substantially fewer nonbinary characters than binary trans male or female characters! this isn’t a point of argument, there is no math that can be performed that will make the ten or fifteen nonbinary characters who have popped up in mainstream media in the last couple of years more prevalent than binary trans characters. certainly, the nonstereotypical fleshed out binary trans characters of color in significant roles are pretty few and far between, but by your own admission they exist. where’s the equivalent nonbinary representation? I’ll be happy to cede this point if you direct me to it, but I know you won’t, because it does not exist.
I don’t know how to address a politics that explicitly expresses that progress toward making trans people’s lives more livable doesn’t count because it involves addressing the society we live in. I just don’t. “Binary trans people having their gender marker changed to reflect their true gender isn’t a goal we should be striving for… This still panders to the system instead of changing it for the better, so I don’t count it when looking at long term trans rights.” I’m sorry, but what, on earth, in this world, do you expect trans people to do? like, as people who are living in societies, and not just as discourse units? do you think binary trans people only fought for legal gender changes so they could get gentle cheek kisses from their local governments and not, like, material security? How far are you willing to take this? biomedical transition reifies the ideological construction of gendered and sexed bodies, should we stop striving for trans healthcare? what should we be striving for instead? what legislation could we support, or is legislation too liberal? is revolutionary communism our only option? I’m all for destroying capitalism and gender but theres just no way I can wait that long.
“We also need to look outside ourselves as recognize that a lot of issues that affect nb people affect trans men and women too, but in different ways. We are trans. The white stripe on the flag is ours. Let’s stop focusing on what micro differences there are between us and focus more on those greater issues that affect all of us, and those that affect our most vulnerable.” solidarity is necessary and focusing on the issues of multiply marginalized people is of primary importance but if we never focus on nonbinary specific issues they simply will not get solved. maybe in that communist revolution, but not at my temple, and not at my school, and not in my family, and not at my job. in my experience coming out and out and out and out as a nonbinary person, people who understand that trans men are men and trans women are women often completely fail to respect my gender identity and I’m sorry if this isn’t an overarching enough issue but it’s a problem for me and being reminded that things still also suck for binary trans people does absolutely nothing for it.
also, guess fucking what! multiply marginalized nonbinary people generally want to be represented, recognized, and supported as participants in society too! nonbinary-particular transphobia is an issue that affects people in the most vulnerable groups of society because being nonbinary isn’t a decadence of the privileged!